Exact site location for the SWDC. Walker Road is over the horizon.
Windsor Star, “A” News, Mayor’s Office Give False Spin on Location
Looking east across 8th Concession from the New Jail.
Looking north from the Correctional facility.
Looking South towards Hwy. 46 and the 401.
The new jail is not in or near the big box development on Walker Road. It is not close to South Windsor and it is not on the corner of Provincial Rd. and Walker. For the record, the new South West Detention Centre will be on the Eighth Concession just north of the 401. It will be in the middle of what is now a farm field. In fact, it will be completely surrounded by corn fields save for a couple of farm houses, a soccer field and the 401. Walker road is not even visible from this location. The distance from what will be the front doors of the new detention center to the intersection of Walker Road and Provincial is 2.2 kilometers. To Hooters it’s 2.8 kms. Hardly worth ruining a good shopping spree.
There is good speculation as to why the Mayor and his well trained media entourage went out of their way to trigger a stampede of concerned citizens. Before getting into that, read below how the Windsor Star, “A” News and the Mayor reacted to the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services’ announcement:
“Windsor's growing big-box area on Walker Road will soon have another neighbour to go with its groceries and home supplies: a new jail”. Windsor Star.
“Proposed site for new Windsor jail: Walker and 401” Windsor Star
“As Jason Chapman reported on A-News at Six, although it seems everyone agrees Windsor's 83-year old jail needs to be replaced the Walker Road site chosen for the 315-bed jail is not the area where city hall was hoping it would be built.” --- A news
“Walker Road site chosen for $30-million detention centre” ---Headline --- A News
"From a logistics perspective there are better locations than to pop it into a heavy commercial area like that," said Francis, chairman of the Windsor Police Services Board. "It's going to cause problems for us and it's going to come at a cost. From a police perspective, we prefer a more direct route." -- Eddie Francis
The Mayor made it very clear that he would rather have the South West Detention Center built on Brighton Beach property. One reason...The City has been trying to dump that property for years. There was also a time when the Detention Facility was being discussed in conjunction with the border file (yes, the Mayor knew about it back then). Back when the access routes and crossing location were still secret. He plugged for Brighton Beach hoping that the Province would tip its hand revealing access routes and a crossing point. After careful consideration the site was nixed. Health considerations for staff and inmates, brine wells and lack of infrastructure all contributed to the Provinces decision to select a superior site. The Mayor was none the wiser. Last week he said this: “Francis said the city had suggested the Brighton Beach industrial area near the Detroit River since its closer to the courts and in a less commercial area -- which might make for easier transportation of detainees back and forth.”…”It’s going to cause problems for us and it’s going to come at a cost. From a Police perspective, we prefer a more direct route.”
As the crow flies the SWDC announced location is only 1.7 kilometers further from the court houses than the Brighton Beach proposal and it’s a clear shot up highway 46 to Provincial to Howard to the courts. So much for that scare tactic.
Why aren’t the Mayor and his droogs playing up the positives? We are replacing a worn out, dirty, 83 year old facility with a new state of the art correctional center with over three times the capacity. This means that the courts won’t be doling out two-for-one time. Offenders, especially repeat offenders will now be incarcerated for their full sentence instead of being let out half way through. That will translate into a reduction in all crimes right across the city. The new location is actually better suited to covering the needs of all county jurisdictions. It is very accessible by major city and provincial highways and public transit.
Economic Benefits
The economic benefits created by the South West Detention Center are the real deal. The Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services points out that construction will translate into $30 million in salaries (ballpark) for about 150 Windsor area construction workers over the duration of the project. There will be $16 million in supply purchases from Windsor and Essex County businesses. Approximately 800 person years of employment will be generated throughout the life of construction. Correctional service jobs will at least double and quite possibly triple. This not only means more disposable income in all of Windsor and Essex County; it also means a surge in benefits to local businesses of all kinds. Staff from the SWDC will be visiting, shopping and spending money in the community they work in. They will be eating at restaurants, buying groceries, furniture, home improvement items and services of all kinds. Yes…This is economic development and community improvement all rolled into one nice package. A gift in these economic times. A gift which our elected officials should embrace with full gratitude.
Please read the following news links about Windsor’s new South West Detention Center:
http://199.71.40.195/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=af42a984-3e7c-472c-a20c-05493e83f6fb&p=1
http://www.atv.ca/windsor/news_62493.aspx
http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/local/story.html?id=bd31f1b6-5e70-41a0-936e-adfee4cd2224
27 comments:
There is another spin-off to this. What can the old jail house in Sandwich Towne be used for? Community Center, restaurant, museum, theatre? The City should look at the possibilities. I hope they don't let the place go t ruin like what happened with Grace Hospital.
How interesting. The location could have easily been reported by local media. Why not then? Good lookin dirt there.
The reason why the mayor hasn't spoken of the positives is because he is a NAYSAYER, a myopic whiner who gets frustrated when he doesn't get his way.
The outrage displayed by Mayor Francis and Windsor's media outlets is somewhat disingenuous. Has Windsor city council and The Windsor Star not been trying to convince the senior levels of government to "decentralize" government operations by moving certain government offices, mainly engineering, to Windsor? Is the new "detention center" a part of the provincial government's "compromise offer"? I think so. Invariably, Windsor and Ontario need large-scale (by Canadian standards) construction projects to stimulate their economies. Thankfully, Canada is in a financial (arguably overtaxed) position to spend copious amounts of public funds on infrastructure projects. Unfortunately, the potential merger of Chrysler and GM stands to exacerbate the problems in Windsor and Ontario.
If Mayor Francis stands in the way of this developement like he has with Sandwiche Town he is toying with much needed jobs and development. Whats to stop the Ministry from walking away from Windsor. I'm sure another city would gladly welcome this opportunity. I don't know if other municipalities shun progress like this one. Something tells me not.
if you like the location so much, i'll sell you my house. you can eat your breakfast and stare at it.
living across the street from a prison wasn't part of plan of raising my 3 kids in the county. what i can't wait for is when i owe the bank 3 times what my house is worth when the value drops. they told me it was going to go up, come on who wants to live across the street from a prison?
To Dave...
You sound like a worrier. You are letting all things get to you. Economy, real estate, jail etc. Lighten up. The building doesn't look menacing, quite pleasant actually. Consider the extra Police presence. If not a jail what do you expect will locate there. More commercial and industrial of coarse. Maybe a Walmart or more big box. Imagine the traffic and noise if that was to take place. The new
Windsor Jail will be low profile/low key and it will be a better option than the other unknowns. Plus it will guarantee a good amount of green space around it. Right now we are surrounded by industrial and commercial. Airport to the north. Factories, wrecking yards along 42. Factories, truck repair operations to the south and commercial/ industrial to the west. Did you think that encroachment was going to cease? Embrace this thing. It will undoubtedly be better than you think.
If you go to www.ontario.ca/swdc and read the FAQ section you will discover that these prisoners will be allowed TEMPORARY DAY PASSES that will be escorted or UNESCORTED!
Also, do we really want a prison to be the first thing that visitors see when they come to our city? Will we be just like Kingston - meaning we will be synonymous with the word "prison"
And why is Sandra Pupatello fighting SO HARD for this particular piece of land? Does an associate, friend or family member of hers own it?
Think about it!
E
To "E" anonymous...
A big misconception is that this facility is a prison. IT IS NOT!
Your comment about "day passes" is made out of context. The FAQ which you refer to states:
"A temporary absence pass allows an offender to leave the institution for a specified length of time for approved activities such as employment, educational classes or treatment. Inmates must go through a risk-assessment process and meet specific low-risk criteria. Temporary absence may be escorted or unescorted."
"Low risk criteria" is the rule here. No different than what is practised now.
As one can see from the architectural rendering the building is very low key and low profile. It won't be any more visible than any factory or service operation already located along that stretch of the highway. It is also quite a distance from the 401 - Who is going to be looking for and thinking about a jail on their way to Windsor?
The land owner is Tony Azar. No connection to Sandra Pupatello. Ms. Pupatello has been a proponent for A NEW JAIL for Windsor for at least 10 years. She originally suggested Brighton Beach as the location but due diligence ruled that location out.
These concerns and any others which anyone has should be brought up during the Public Information Sessions. See the following:
October 29
Mackensie Hall
8:00 A.M. to 5:30 P.M.
November 1, November 5
Cioccaro Club
8:00 A.M. to 8:00 P.M.
That's a great idea for unemployment in Windsor;if their unemployed put them in jail!
The only reason I think Eddie is in an uproar is because his pals (who he meets with each week and are the same smart investors who have gobbled up the land around the east end arena) wanted to bulid something there. Maybe more sprawl, maybe more big box stores? Who knows? But to keep screaming at the province and feds everytime they spend a dime in Windsor is going to come back and haunt. Thanks for nothing Edward Francis!
To Dave. Are you sayig that people who live in the center of the city should eat this then? Your fault for buying a house on the fringes of the city, a city that is sprawling out of control.
What you should be complaining about is the lack of investments in neighbourhoods that Edward talked about some time ago.
How could such a development NOT improve the area? Right out of the box there will be improved infrastructure, added police presence, more commerce etc. This Jail is a small building in the middle of acres of green. If this facility didn't locate here imagine what would. Truck yards, garages, storage facilities, you name it. That is what the secondary plan is all about. At least this way there will be something quiet and pleasant to look at. Residential property values can only go up.
First off the original posting here is incorrect in distances by about 5 km in terms of distance from Brighton Beach to Courts less than from Walker location to Courts. All you have to do is use any map program and not only see the difference but it will calculate the difference for you using the shortest route. By the way you can get to courts by just using county road 46! It really is not that simple but you can get to the courts by Sandwich/Riverside drive for both Brighton Beach and the present jail.
In as much I don't like how long it has taken for past City projects this one is a provincial and I believe Mr. Francis is right on with finding a use for Brighton Beach just as the province has found will be good for a new cross border bridge. Lots more land there to develop. Prefect! Do a complete environmental study for boh projects - save some money!
Stick to the master plan for zoning of the annexed lands in South Windsor - not a place for an institution on a number of levels already stated in previous comments.
There seems to be a concensus of opinion that there is a need for the detention centre but if people of Windsor, County and Province want to spend money to help us all then build in area that needs it the most with best cost for transportation and use of manpower. With less time spent transporting inmates to courts, police and correction officers can take care of other important matters.
Sorry but in my last posting I really meant to write that you CAN'T get to courts by simply using county rd 46! You really do need to go through core inner city to get back and forth to use the shortest route of 11.2 km.
Misconceptions abound.
This is not a correctional facility. It is a detention centre. It is a place where people are held waiting for or during a trial. It is a place where they are held before they are transferred to a correctional facility to complete their sentence.
Dave: Let us know when you get a signed letter from an accredited appraiser that your property value will drop more than 30 percent because of the detention centre.
Terry 2: The master plan for the Sandwich South (not South Windsor) area designated general land uses, much of it 'future urban area' or 'future employment'. The secondary plans will define the exact land uses which will then be used to determine the zoning. Nothing has been set in stone for the area.
The detention centre will never be located in Brighton Beach because you don't locate a sensitive land uses within an industrial area, especially one with heavy and noxious industrial uses and a future customs plaza and bridge crossing.
Besides, it's not really up to the Mayor. The Province can do what it wants to. The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing can always issue a zoning order. Ontario Realty Corporation is following the planning process as a courtesy.
Thanks Vincent for the info. Are you guessing about the zoning or are you quoting from a direct source? I believed that when Windsor annexed the property it needed to submit a proper plan for the area when the request was made so it really doesn't matter what Sandwich South did in its planning. And it seems to me that as much as the province is "being courteous" as you said and may be right, there would be some political fallout if most people in the Windsor / County region found the actions of the Ministry/Province went against their wishes. How much that is worth we will have to wait and see.
As far as the west end being "toxic" as you put it, I would also think if this were the case then there are at least a few residents/workers that might be in line for some compensation from the government for all the time spent there. Lawsuit perhaps!
I would ask that you also keep in mind that just as the province has the authority to make zoning changes for South Windsor so can they do so as well for West Windsor if they choose. And from what I hear that would be more easily achieved following an equally courteous route with Windsor's blessing and thus be more politically correct!
Looks like transportation costs are moot anyway.
"Considering the Province of Ontario will be uploading the costs of prisoner transportation by 2018; and that the proposed Southwest Detention Centre will be equipped for video conferencing as is the case with the Maplehurst Correctional Facility (which was confirmed in an email to me today) - prisoner transportation is not an issue for the province."
The above quotation is from Schnurr's Sound Off. Looks like there will be videoconferencing from the jail to the courts. No travel time, no prisoner transport, no fuel spent, no extra manpower required. Ahhh, the technologocial age. Proximity to the court house IS NOT AN ISSUE. Read Chris' full post here:
http://chrisschnurr.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/brighton-beach-planning-issues/
I read Chris Schnurr's article and like he said I am no expert but I will be reading on as others post their comments as I do not know the area well but have heard that there at least enough acreage there to sufficiently allow for the detention facility which is why I am posting this comment to primarily point out by Vincent Clement two posts ago that Maplehurst is a "correctional" facility (built by Harris Gov't) and the new Windsor Jail is a "detention" facility. So, perhaps video conferencing for procedural issues will be the only use and the so called "criminal" will still need to face his victim in such cases where a victim is involved as I believe the law requires. I am sure that there will be more on this to come. I will admit it is nice to hear from "urban planners" in these blogs as I am sure many of us are getting some valuable information. Thank you.
I still do not believe that South Windsor is the best place for this facility. It is encouraging to read that with all the technological innovations out there, we may still find a perfect place for the SWDC - perhaps something the urban planners posting here might be challenged to find. Have you looked elsewhere in the interest of all who have concerns if just to show the government that you are not afraid to do so as a more intelligent planner?
Respectfully, Vincent Clement seems to have that expertise but for the moment is leaving the planning up to the government and developers who do not want to release their reasons for this site as opposed to others considered.
I for one appreciate all that Chris Schnurr has given. Much respect to one who provides insightful information without being "inciteful" in his comments about others. I truly like it when he does make a conscious effort to not misrepresent facts he provides. Thanks again.
To Terry 2:
You have hit the nail on the head:
"...the new Windsor Jail is a "detention" facility."
The basic fact is that it is merely a replacement for our current jail (detention facility). History tells us that the current facility has done its job well with no incidents to support all of the faux angst that is clouding the new jail and its location. If you speak with area residents and merchants of Sandwich Town you will find that the jail has actually been a huge contributor and supporter to the area.
The new jail location, by comparison, is not skirted by residential as is the case with the Sandwich jail. The 100 or so closest residents to the new site are, at their closest point, some 900 metres away. The rest stretch all the way out to Manning Road.
As for the jails location with respect to visitors traveling the 401 there is no real concern. The design is transparent and seamless. How many times have you seen any other correctional facilities while travelling along the 400 series highways?
As others have said, its time to work with the Provincial Ministry to get as much out of this development as the local area can. The economic stimulus in all of its forms is a needed bonus as well.
And yes...If we are not going to be an automotive town then yeah for more civil service jobs. As many as the governments can throw at us.
Sorry Kirwood, I am still not buying into the new South Windsor site being the greatest thing since apple pie. As I read again all the posted comments, you have to wonder why there are so many west end objections to Brighton Beach area even though the Old Jail with all its shortcomings involving overcrowding still evokes accolades about how great it WAS and no so much "I wish we could do something to keep it". So pardon me if I am a little bit skeptical as many have been so wonderful to go so far as to say South Windsor residents need to embrace this new project. If new businesses or homeowners are not convinced that what they have seen with their own eyes is a wonderful thing surrounding these existing new and old detention centres then this will certainly slow down ALL new perspective employment opportunities. From what many are projecting about Windsor that we may need to rely on non automotive perhaps more service/government oriented business then that alone may prove itself to be prophetic as to why we need to keep projects like this more remote.
Not objections to Brighton Beach. Restrictions.
Olde Sandwiche Town would not object if the jail stayed in the area. There is no room for expansion and no land for renewal.
South Windsor is a misnomer as the new site is not close to that area. What was Sandwich South is where the 100 or so residents live.
No objection from any of the local businesses has been recorded to date.
How would this development slow down development opportunities? It could only enhance them.
Wether Windsor is an automotive town or not the city still needs to have a jail.
Ask yourself this question: How would a jail at this designated location affect you? Be honest.
No really it is proposed in the south eastern lower part of Windsor - hence South Windsor is a good way to describe it. Quite honestly, as I have said numerous times this project would be fine if it were a good residential/commercial enterprise. I would gladly invite anything that enhanced the surrounding area that did not divert from the long standing zoning of the area that has already enhanced the area to its present status of where everyone wants to be. It never, ever envisioned an institutional facility.
In spite of what is being posted I believe there is more to come on the perceived restrictions that have already been presented but not yet confirmed by any "officials". Until that happens much of what others have graciously illustrated are still just that illustrations for consideration. I for one would like to see the west end residents who truly support this new state of the art facility get the best info available on the ability to keep it there. If they can't then perhaps the government in their ultimate wisdom might find it in themselves to be open and transparent as to the entire process of site selection. And like with the DRIC process, perhaps the government could allow for some input. Up until now this has been strictly a lame attempt to show a few facts and pictures/sketches of what they want?
"As far as the west end being "toxic" as you put it, I would also think if this were the case then there are at least a few residents/workers that might be in line for some compensation from the government for all the time spent there. Lawsuit perhaps!" You've allowed yourself to be conditioned to believe that Windsor's "culture of entitlement" must be defended. How will such a lawsuit be funded?
"...this project would be fine if it were a good residential/commercial enterprise." Who is going to purchase and occupy the residential units? Retirees or recruited physicians? What about mortgages? Windsor's unemployment rate is the highest in Canada. What businesses would lease space in the commercial component? Your argument is becoming progressively weaker.
Just remember that when Windsor casino expanded a Toronto company reaped the benefits of building it.
As with all construction projects anyone can bid for it - there is no guarantee that Windsor companies will build this "detention centre".
Also, no "new" jobs will be created for this detention facility as the old jail will close down and the present workers will just move over to the new facility.
Also, Tony Azar was quoted in the paper as saying the province was going to pay him $300,000 - $400, 000 per acre. this is without the actual building! Can't we find a better deal? This is our tax money being spent carelessly!
To Anonymous last:
This blog post has identified the following figures:
$30 million in salaries, 150 area construction jobs, $16 million in supply purchases from local businesses plus additional correctional service jobs above and beyond the 100 or so currently employed at the west end jail. For the record, these figures come from the Ministry.
If you contact any major developer in the area you will find that the going rate for commercial property of this nature is in the $350,000.00 per acre price range so the land cost is right where it is supposed to be. The City wants to get rid of Brighton Beach because they haven't been able to sell or even lease it out for the last 15 years. They would like nothing better than to sell it off but it has it's obvious inherent issues and impediments.
In response to Dave...
I'm sure you didn't plan to have a jail near your house when you bought it, but consider the people in the West end of Windsor that wake up every morning and have to stare out at an old decrepit jail. They have to send their kids for a nice walk past the jail to get to their school. This jail has been in our community for many years, and we have yet to have a problem. The only problem is knowing that its there. At least in the county your children won't have to pass the jail on their walk to school. There is a decent distance between the jail and civilization. It isn't square in the middle of your neighbourhood.
Plus with the downfall of our economy recently, and the shutting down of the big 3, we are in desperate need of the jobs and this will benefit many people.
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